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But if, indeed, I have been enabled to perform the duties required of me, I cannot take the credit to myself; you will pardon me, and the solemnity of the occasion will justify me, if I say, without fear of the least degree of cant or hypocrisy being imputed to me, that I am fully persuaded I am indebted, in the first place, to Him, whose providence has placed me in this most responsible situation; and it is a curious coincidence, which you will permit me to notice, that the rules which I have read, and by which this discussion has been guided, are dated on the day of my birth. But having acknowledged the first source, whence I derived power to attain the approbation which you, in your courtesy, have expressed, allow me to say, secondly, that I am indebted to yourselves-to you, gentlemen, who have so ably and so eloquently defended your respective systems; and, thirdly, to the meeting at large. It may appear trifling to use the simile, but, in truth, you have made me little better than a time-piece. My duty I have endeavoured to discharge faithfully, and it has been my delight and privilege to act with the utmost impartiality; nay, even to command my looks, lest there should appear to be some irregularity in the vibrations of the pendulum. Such is the humble instrument I have most resembled. The pendulum is, however, now at rest, and I cannot vibrate on either side; my duties are at an end; but, if it please God, I will resume the Chair again on Wednesday next, should it be your good pleasure.

In conclusion, permit me to say that this has been the most orderly meeting I ever witnessed, and is worthy the imitation of every meeting in this great land, and from one extremity of the British Empire to the other, I trust it will be duly appreciated.

Thus ended the Discussion on the "RULE OF FAITH."







FOURTH DAY.-Wednesday, March 5th, 1834.



THE CHAIRMAN, on taking the Chair, said, Ladies and Gentlemen, as there are probably some now present, who did not take any part in the discussion of the first subject, perhaps it may be well for me to detain you a few moments whilst I read again the rules by which the discussion is to be regulated.

(The Hon. Gentleman then read the Rules.)


Mr. Chairman, Ladies and Gentlemen, - The matter upon which I am now invited to address you is indeed of vital importance; and I feel sensibly the awful responsibility which I take upon myself, when I come forward to advocate, concerning the Sacrifice of the Mass, the doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church. It is a matter I have said of vital importance; for it was upon this point, principally, that the Calvinists rested the lawfulness of their separation from the Roman Catholic Church. That Church they said, could not be the Church of Christ, which was involved in an error so great as is implied by the doctrine of the Real Presence, and the Sacrifice of the Mass it had thereby, they alleged, fallen into idolatry, for a length of time, and thus, not having been supported by the promises of Christ, the Roman Catholic Church could not be the true Church.-I feel full well all the dif ficulties of my present situation: I know that there are arrayed against us prejudices conceived almost in infancy, prejudices which have been nourished in maturer years,

prejudices which have been confirmed even by old age. How then shall I apply myself to my task? It is, by entreating, in the first place, that you will, as much as possible, divest yourselves of any preconceived notions, respecting those points of Catholic doctrine which I am about to develope. Yet I am fully sensible that it will be extremely difficult for you, if not impossible, so far to free yourselves from those cherished prejudices of your early and riper years, as that they shall place no obstacle in the way of my doing justice to my cause.

My duty prescribes that, in the first place, I should lay before you the doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church; and if that doctrine appear unreasonable and absurd, I bid you recollect that it is the doctrine, not of a small portion only of Christendom, but, of by far the largest portion; that it is the doctrine which was maintained by the whole Church before Protestantism made its appearance; that it is the doctrine of Christianity from the east even unto the west; finally, that it is the same doctrine which was held by such men as Pascal, Bossuet, Fenelon, and Descartes, by men distinguished in different countries and in different ages, by their soundness of understanding, and the acquisitions which they made in every science. Do not then, at the outset, condemn me as advocating an absurdity.

I beg also to observe that before proceeding to establish directly the Catholic belief concerning the Sacrifice of the Mass, it is necessary that I should satisfy you fully concerning another very essential doctrine; and Mr. T. is well aware of the necessity under which I labour of advocating the real presence of Christ upon our altars, as well as the sacrifice which we make of him thereon. When, indeed, we first met to propose this discussion, I was of opinion that those dogmas were not so essentially connected, but that Mr. T. might be satisfied with bringing his objections against the Sacrifice of the Mass alone. As however, he thought differently, I am willing that our doctrine of the real presence shall be fairly controverted, as well as that of the Sacrifice which we offer; and consequently I shall first establish that part of our Creed which relates to the former subject.

Our doctrine on the Real Presence is stated by the Council of Trent, Session 13, cap. 1:—

"The Holy Synod openly and plainly professes, that, in the sacrament of the Eucharist, after the consecration of the bread and wine, our Lord Jesus Christ, true God and man, is truly, really, and substantially present under the

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